Clarification/Follow-up by voiceguy2000 on 04/16/04 6:42 pm:
I am disconcerted that the left turn could wind up turning into the _right_ lane, thus interfering with a right turn being made by someone else.
It depends on whether the person turning right was there first. Vehicle Code Section 21451(a) states:
A driver facing a circular green signal shall proceed straight through or turn right or left or make a U-turn unless a sign prohibits a U-turn. Any driver, including one turning, shall yield the right-of-way to other traffic and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk.
As I interpret this section, it means that if the left-turning driver is already well underway in the turn, the right-turning driver should yield and allow the left turn to be completed. However, if the right turn is already in progress before the left-turner reaches a position to actually commence turning, then the right turner would have the right of way.
I am fairly sure, however, that it would be a traffic violation for the right turner to commence making a turn in such time and manner as to force a left turner who was in the midst of turning to divert his or her car into the leftmost destination lane in order to avoid a collision. This is especially true when the left turner has a green arrow and the right turner is facing a red light.
Vehicle Code Section 21801 adds these provisions: (a) The driver of a vehicle intending to turn to the left or to complete a U-turn upon a highway, or to turn left into public or private property, or an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching from the opposite direction which are close enough to constitute a hazard at any time during the turning movement, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to the approaching vehicles until the left turn or U-turn can be made with reasonable safety.
(b) A driver having yielded as prescribed in subdivision (a), and having given a signal when and as required by this code, may turn left or complete a U-turn, and the drivers of vehicles approaching the intersection or the entrance to the property or alley from the opposite direction shall yield the right-of-way to the turning vehicle.
Thus, the question in any given situation is how close the oncoming car (the one turning right) was when the left turner commenced the turn. This is obviously a matter of judgment, but in practice the answer is usually quite obvious. Clarification/Follow-up by RDWilson2 on 04/19/04 10:55 am:
My point of diconcertion is that, if both drivers are initiating the turn at approximately the same time, then, according to what you have indicated, the driver turning left has as much right to the right-most lane as does the driver turning right.
Your statement ("I am fairly sure, however, that it would be a traffic violation for the right turner to commence making a turn in such time and manner as to force a left turner who was in the midst of turning to divert his or her car into the leftmost destination lane in order to avoid a collision.") would lead me to believe that, if I was approaching an intersection with the intention of making a right turn and observed another driver waiting in the intersection to turn left, then, even though there may be 3 or 4 lanes in the direction we both intend to go, I could be "at fault" if the other driver start to turn left and aims for the right-most lane as _I_ start to make my right turn.
Oh, well . . . just another reason not to drive in CA! ;-)
Clarification/Follow-up by voiceguy2000 on 04/19/04 11:42 am:
I wouldn't get too discouraged about things in California.
The overall rule is that someone turning left is required to yield to oncoming traffic. If you are approaching the intersection from the opposite direction in order to turn right, and are close enough that the left turner cannot proceed safely, then the left turner is supposed to wait.
It is only where the left turner is already well underway with the turn that oncoming cars are supposed to wait.
The main significance of what I have reproduced above is that the left turner is permitted to complete the turn in any available lane. Thus, you cannot complain about a left turner that has done so. If the left turner is in the midst of completing a turn into the lane closest to the far curb when you approach the intersection, you must wait your turn.
The most important rule of all, however, is: Don't hit the other car. That applies to both! :-)
Clarification/Follow-up by RDWilson2 on 04/19/04 12:40 pm:
After doing a bit of research, I found almost exactly the same wording in the Texas Traffic Codes. I also found that most cities in Oklahoma seem to add a little to the Oklahoma traffic codes and specify that a left-turn is to be made _from_ the left-most lane _to_ the left-most lane . . . which is the way _I_ was taught.
My basic reason for starting this thread was that I am consistently faced with being at a yield sign (facing, essentially southward)wanting to turn right but being prevented from doing so by north-bound traffic making a left turn from a 4-way stop. The drivers turning from north-bound to west-bound consistently turn into the rightmost lane . . . arriving in that lane almost exactly in front of the traffic at the yield sign. Unfortunately, the timing between the left-turn vehicles is such that it prevents the right turns.
Anyway, that is _my_ sad story and not really your concern. ;-) I appreciate your responses. (Among other things, they gave me some words to search on that proved more beneficial to my research on the Texas traffic code. ;-)
Clarification/Follow-up by voiceguy2000 on 04/19/04 2:22 pm:
In Texas, if a driver does something rude and obnoxious, isn't it permissible to get out your .357 and shoot the bastard? :-)
Clarification/Follow-up by Fr_Chuck on 04/25/04 8:43 am:
Now, now voice guy, in TX you would have your hunting rifle in the back window and merley have to move your dog out of the front seat of the truck to get to it. No need to risk missing with a handgun.
